> place_ Star tower 34층 집무실
> connector_ 박종흠 + ? (누구?)
> members_ 김성우, 방경민, 신동현, 박정윤
녹음하지 못해서- 놓친 부분이 많네요. 왜곡된 부분도 있으리라..
같이 참여하셨던 분은 잘못된 부분 고쳐주시고, 빠진부분 덧붙여주세요.
* 인터뷰를 정리하다보니- fact중심의 문답만 있어 아쉽.
본인이 자신에 대한 부분은 많이 드러내고 싶지 않으셨던듯.
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약력
> 서울대학교 컴퓨터 공학과 졸업
> 한국 과학 기술원 전산학 석사
> 1992년 삼성 SDS 입사
> 1999년 네이버컴 대표이사 사장
> 2001년 NHN 공동대표 이사 사장
> 2004년 NHN 이사회 의장 겸 CSO (전략 임원) 부사장
현재 NHN은 검색포털 서비스 네이버와 한게임 외에도 어린이 전문 포털 쥬니어 네이버 등 각종 콘텐츠와 게임을 비롯한 엔터테인먼트 서비스를 제공하는 미디어로서 역할을 하고 있으며, 일본과 중국 등 해외 시장에 진출 하는 등 글로벌 기업으로 성장하고 있다.
intro.
이해진 부사장은 본래 삼성SDS 사내 동아리에서 출발한 검색엔진 개발을 시작으로 1999년 (주)네이버 컴을 설립, 현재 국내 No.1 인터넷 검색포털 서비스를 제공하는 (주)NHN으로 이끈 리더이다. 사무실에 찾아온 MS를 보시더니 약간 당황한듯. 머쓱해하셨다. 자리가 꽉차니까 약간 불안해하는거 같기도 했고... NHN이 젊은 기업이고 직원들 대부분이 편안한 캐주얼 하고 있어서 그 또한 편안한 복장일 것으로 예상했으나, 셔츠에 넥타이까지 하고계셨음. 일할 때 일하고 쉴 때 푹 쉰다 면서 항상 어느 정도의 '여유'를 가지는 것이 중요하다 했지만, '1위어야 한다'는 미션을 항상 가슴에 품고 회사를 이끌어가는 리더의 모습였다. 플러스, 인터뷰 내내 '검색'에 대한 신념과 열정은 개발자로서나 사업가로서나 변함없음을 느낄 수 있었다.
질문시작
Q. 학부와 대학원을 졸업하고 개발자로서 사회 첫 시작을 하셨습니다. 그 후 사업가로서 회사를 일구어 내는데 어려움이 있었다면 무엇이고, 자질은 무엇이라고 생각 하십니까?
원래 사업을 하려고 시작한 것이 아니었다. 지금은 개발자라기 보다는 회사를 운영하는 입장이지만. 그렇지만 아직도 사업가의 자질이 무엇을 말하는 것인지 잘 몰겠다. 사람이 오히려 잘 안되더라. 필요한 경우에 읽었던 몇몇 경영서들은 책장에 꽂혀있다.
Q. 1위가 되기위해 어떤 노력을 하셨습니까?
나는 검색 솔루션이라는 회사가 가진 기본적인 아이템에 집중했다. 처음에는 마케팅도 약했다. 그러나 덕분에 오히려 본질에 집중할 수 있었다. 아쉬움이 있다면 CEO가 빨리 된 것이 문제였다. 조금 더 많은 것이 갖춰진 상황에서 되었다면 더 쉬웠을 거다. 경쟁은 게임과 같다. 게임에서는 무조건 이겨야 한다. 1위는 영원히 유지되는 것이 아닌 상대적인 위치다, 다음 물결에 대비하여 타임라인을 잘 짜야 한다. (전쟁에 비유한 것도 있는데,, 가물가물) 그래서 고민거리는 끊이지 않는다. 산넘어산...
Q. 본질이라면?
검색솔루션으로 시작한 회사이다. 디지털기술이 발전하기 전에는 정보가 곧 권력이었다. 그러나 지금의 정보화 시대는 누가 얼마나 가치있는 정보를 찾아 어떻게 쓰느냐가 관건이다. 유용한 정보들이 한 곳에 머물러있는 것은 바람직한 일이 아니다. 지금도 많은 지식들이 도서관에, 또는 지면에 갇힌채 매장되어 있다. 네이버에는 '정보의 공유'를 가능하게 하는 데이타 베이스가 존재한다. 이는 사회에 기여하는 면이 있어 보람이 있다. 요즘엔 게임에도 보람을 찾으려 노력하고 있다.
Q. 회사설립 초기인 99년에는 벤처붐 시기와 닷컴기업에 대한 회의 등 사업환경이 안정적이지 않았습니다. 어려운 상황을 어떻게 극복하셨습니까?
첫째 운이 좋았고, 둘째 좋은 분들을 잘 만났던거 같다. SDS에서 독립해 나올 때도 그 어려운 시기에 펀딩 잘 받을 수 있었다. 같은 때 다른 벤처들은 투자를 받을려면 많은 어려움을 가지고 있었다. 한게임/서치솔루션과의 병합은 좋은 결정이었고, 뒤이은 한게임 유료화 성공 등 여러모로 타임라인을 잘 밟았던거 같다.
Q. 운 말고도, 리더쉽/ 비전 등의 사항이있을텐데요.,,
카리스마는 나와 멀다. 그래서 'Good to Great' 에 감명받았다.(웃음) 성실함을 바탕으로 한 신뢰가 중요하다. 대화나 행동을 하더라도 끝에 신뢰가느껴져야. 또한 Win-Win을 추구한다. 양보가 오히려 더 나은딜인 경우도 많았다. 마음을 사기 위해서 손해도 봤다.
*참고: 'Good to Great'- 위대한 기업에서는 흔히 생각되는 카리스마가 있는 강력한 리더보다 오히려 수줍어하고, 나서기를 싫어하고 조용한 리더가 많다고 함.
Q. 공동대표체제에서 단독체제로 전환되면서 개인 생활에 달라진 점은 무엇입니까?
공동대표체제는 오래 갈 수 없었다. 무엇보다 마음이 편하다. 사람들을 대하는 거나 골프를 치는 건 김범수 대표가 낫다.
(기타 둘이 서로 말이 워낙없기 때문에 직원들이 다툰 것으로 착각한 적이 있다는 등.. 이야기함, ??? 덧붙여주셈, please.)
Q. NHN은 동종업계에서 연봉이 높기로 소문나 있다. 그만큼 보상에 신경 쓴다는 것으로 보입니다. 특별한 이유가 있는지요?
사람마다 다르다. 자식에게 물려줄것도 아니고, 직원들이 잘 일하는게 좋은 것이다. 인사고과나 직무평가에 있어서 좋은 룰을 만들어, 기여도에 맞춰 보상한다.
Q. 대기업에서의 근무경험의 장단점은?
삼성에서의 경험이 좋았던 아니던 기업을 경영하는데 많은 참고가 된다. 낭비가 아니었다. 잘되는 회사는 기업문화가 다르다. (기업문화에 대해 언급한것중 무엇이 있었나요??) 그 축적된 'know-how'를 배웠고, 그 경험을 바탕으로 경영을 할 수 있다. NHN이 삼성 스타일이란 말이 많다. 이것은 지금 임원들이 다같이 SDS에서 시작했던 영향도 있을 것이다.
Q. 창업에서부터 지금까지 테헤란에서 벤처기업들의 흥망을 지켜보셨다. 가장 아쉬운 것은 무엇이었나?
국내 기업들은 내외적 한계를 가지고 있다. 내적 한계로 사업에 있어서 '정서적'인 것을 중요히 여기는 것을 들 수 있다. 기업의 내실을 다지기 보다는 인간적인 것에 크게 의존하다가 그르친 경우가 많다. 외적인 한계로 좁은 국내 시장 규모를 들 수 있다. 큰 돈을 들여 좋은 기술을 개발하더라도 수요 인구가 적어 시장규모가 안나온다. 따라서 해외 진출하여 글로벌 기업으로 성장할 필요가 있다. 왜 아직 성공사례가 없느냐? 능력이 문제가 아니다. 한국에 뛰어난 인재가 미국만큼 많은 것도 아니고... 무엇보다 기업들이 힘을 합쳐야 한다고 생각한다. 의미있는 기업들이 나오려면 서로 양보하고 조금은 희생할 필요가 있다. 더구나 인터넷/ 소프트 웨어 사업은 브랜드를 파는 것이다. 더이상 좁은 시장에서 작은 파이를 가지고 경쟁할 필요가 없다.(한게임과의 합병을 얘기하는 것 같음)
* 이런얘기도 하셨음_ 어디에 붙이지?
검색 알고리즘은 전세계적으로 3개 밖에 살아 남을 수 없다. '네이버'의 알고리즘은 타 검색엔진과 차별된 검색결과를 보여주어 현재 일본에 진출해서 좋은 반응을 얻고있다.
Q. 문제를 해결하거나 중요한 결정을 내릴 때 어떻게 하시나요?
논리를 따른다. 엔지니어다 보니까 막연하게 문제를 해결한다기 보다는 문제에 접근할 때에는 프로그램을 만들듯 알고리즘을 짜듯이 한다. 그래서 엔지니어가 성공하는데는 큰 무리가 없다고 생각한다
Q. 멘터가 있나요?
지금 현재에는 특별한 누구를 멘터로 삼고 있지 않다. 예전에는 자신에게 없는 것을 가진 사람을 멘터로 생각했었으나, 그 또한 강점 외에도 약점을 가지고 있음을 깨달았고 실망스러웠던 기억이 있다.
Q. 시간관리는 어떻게 하십니까?
특별히 시간관리라고 하는 것이 없다. 자로잰듯 시간을 쓰진 않는다. 다만 일할때 일하고 쉴때 쉰다. 잠이 많은편?(이라고 했었나요?) 강박관념을 가지기 보다는 마음에 여유를 가지는 것이 중요하다고 생각한다.
Q. 휴식시간에는 주로 어떤 일을 하십니까?
주로 명상책을 읽음. (이부분 보충요- 기억이 하나두 안남. 특별히 하시는일이 없다고 한듯...)
Q. 사회생활을 시작한 후배들에게 해주고 싶은 당부가 있다면?
경험을 살려 기획을 할 수 있는 능력을 가져야 한다. 또한 매니아적인 것들 가지고있어야! 일에 대한 열정을 가져라. 20대와 30대 초반까지는 무엇이든 잘하는 것이 중요하다. 마치 야구에서 '4번타자'같이.(이거 해석쫌 -_-;;) 환경 탓할 것이 아니라 하물며 복사를 맡더라도 누구보다도 깔끔하게 주어진 일을 잘 처리해야 한다. 그럴 수 있어야 자신이 원하는 분야에서도 프로가 될 수 있을 것.
Q. 자녀들을 교육시키실때 어떤 점에 중점을 두고 싶으세요?
영어를 잘해야한다. 이것은 그저 영어점수가 몇 점, 이런 문제가 아니다. 네이티브 수준의 언어를 구사할 수 있다는 것은 훨씬 많은 일들을 할 수 있는 기회를 만들 수 있는 능력이다.
Date: 2004년7월 27일오후 5시
Interviewee: 김영세Inno Design CEO
Connector: 김동신
Interviewer:김동신, 박정윤, 박종흠, 이화섭, 천정하
사거리의건널목에서정하를만나서화섭, 정윤과이노디자인의건물(건물이꽤나특이했음– 입구찾는데살짝고생)에도착하고, 엘리베이터를기다리는도중, 문이열리자마자보이는김영미이사님과김영세대표님(두분성함이비슷해서잠깐친족에대한루머(?)가돌긴하였으나, 뒤에아니라고밝혀짐). 회의실로안내되었는데, 분위기부터역시디자인업체는다르다는인상(무엇보다화장실입구가다소부담스러움– 슬라이드형도어라니!!)
잠시후종흠형도착, 김영미기획이사님과따듯한손길(?)을주고받은후(종흠형의해맑은센스포인트 +100점기록), 김영세대표님과김영미이사님과함께인터뷰시작. 태극무늬잔세트에담겨온음료를마시며이노디자인업체에대한설명을하시고, 김영미이사님으로부터이노디자인프로모션(;;) 동영상과제품라인업등에대하여설명을들음.
인터뷰와강연의중간형태로내용전개. 현재이노디자인은미국지사쪽에만제품디자이너가 25명정도, 한국지사에디자이너가 15명정도이며웹디자이너 2명, 비쥬얼디자이너(이부분은못들어버림) 등으로구성되어있는총규모 50인정도의회사– 디자인업계에서 50인규모의기업은상당히큰편임. 미국에서 20주년, 한국에서 5주년된기업.
김영세대표님은본인이디자인교교주이라고지칭하시며, 디자인이우리를지배하고디자인은마술이자, ‘제대로된’ 디자인은‘아주건전한’ 마약이다라고표현– IMC(Inno Mania Club)에대한이야기에서 MS의스폰서(?)에대한아이디어(?)를잠시… ;;
디자인사업을하면서느낀점:한길을파되, 얼마든지확산될수있는길을보았다. Design A to Z – 모든영역에있어서디자인의연결가능성을느꼈다.
좋아하는말中: “가격경쟁력으로성공할수있는회사는각분야에단하나다” – because 제일싸야하니까
사업을하게된배경과 Inno Design에대한시작이야기
Ÿ 진로의결정: 16살때디자인에대한감을잡고시작. 어머니아버지께설득이힘들었음. 부모설득몇년, 배울게없던대학…
Ÿ Inno 로고: 1979년~1981년 (빼앗길까봐그린후, 바로지갑에넣음 - 7년간보관) - 7분만에만들어진 CI 작업
Ÿ 바로써먹지못한이유:자신감부족 + 계산 (“때가아니다” – 사람은누구나때가있다by 때밀이– 유..유머)
Ÿ 창업: 1986년
Ÿ 느낀점:자신의 drive는버릴수없다– 하고싶은일을참는다는것은매우힘든일이다
Ÿ INNOVATION: Inno의로고는사각, 삼각, 동그라미의조합 (본인이좋아하는기하) – family story: 식탁위의냅킨, 접시, 나이프로둘째아이가 inno design – design makes the difference라고외치던모습을보면서흐뭇해하심
본인이회사를그만두고스스로의사업을하게된계기
Ÿ Design은 new paradigm, 내역량을발휘하기위하여는기존의기업에있다가는제한을받는다
Ÿ 할일없을때 creative 해진다
태극무늬
우연이다, 특별히애국심그런것도아니고… 빨강파랑은 no thanx; 곡선과직선은예쁘다는생각– 직선의강직함과곡선의유연함이한국이다? 그리고 Inno의로고와통한다라는것에서시작. 원칙으로는 1) 칼라를넣지말자. 2) 태극의 full line을모두넣지않는다.
ACME 등록
오리엔탈중최초– Frank Lloyd Wright 등과같은라인에서전시
타겟고객층
Inno의타겟의‘상위의개념’은 money-base가아니라디자인감각-base으로서의상위 3%?
Cf>루이비똥: 4-billion dolloar, 마진 30%; 그중한국, 일본이 70% - 문화에대한기만? 사람의심리를 hurt하는비즈니스다– 착각을유도? 있는사람의착각; 없는사람의불쾌(질투); 루이비똥 150년의역사(결국 150년전에는가방회사였을뿐이다) – 제품-base & 이미지-selling – 장사는된다, but 생활에득이되지는않는다; 내가보는디자인의힘은“인간의생활에도움”이되는것
Unexpected하면서가치가높은것으로향하는것이바람직하나, 대부분의기업들은안정적으로나아가고자하기때문에시장의벽에도달한다. 이러한것을디자인을통해서혁신을시켜나갈수있으며이방향은 open-ended되어있기때문에가능성을갖는다. 시장자체는그러한혁신을쫓아가기때문에시장의벽도함께성장하며, 그러하기에계속적으로디자인을통한혁신이필요하다.
중국디자인업계의모방문제
Copy Cat 문화는 inno의비즈니스에크리티컬하지는않지만, 전반적으로문제가될수는있다– 문화적자존심? (김영세 chart의) Left-bottom 박스에서벗어나지못하는것이다
제대로된디자인이란?
Ÿ 아름답고(눈에띈다), 쓰기좋고(만족), 만들기쉬운(싸다) = 대박이다
Ÿ Functionally easy-to-use, esthetically beautiful, easy-for-manufacturing
명품에대하여…
Ÿ 명품이라는단어에대한거부– 사치품이다
Ÿ 영어로명품은– masterpiece vs 사치품– luxury item
도움요망(;)
byinnoclub 멤버가되었으면좋겠다; inno라는브랜드를사랑해주기를바란다
specialist vs generalist - 비중을둔다면? 디자이너로서는? CEO로서는?
Ÿ Specialized generalist, generalized specialist
Ÿ 현업에종사하다보면모르는게없어야한다 (예: 화장품업계– 요즘유행하는컬러는?) – (조모교수에대한비판 ;;;)
Ÿ 디자인이라는분야가너무어렵기때문에쉬워보인다
Ÿ Artist + business savvy + 순발력 + 농력 + 통달한커뮤니케이션능력 + 예언가 + 발명가 = 레오나르도다빈치
어릴적이나인생전반에걸쳐서본인에게가장큰영향을미친책이나이론, 사상혹은인물등이있다면소개를 - 정신적, 실체적멘토의발견
Ÿ 레오나르도다빈치– the only mentor (500년전낙하산스케치에대한일화)
취미
Ÿ 노래, 골프
Ÿ 디자인하기가곧취미(편안해짐; visualization)
클라이언트의거부대한본인의시각
다시해와라, 다시해와라를안해가지고여기까지오는데오래걸렸다. 이러한거부에대응하는일을해야만빨리 business가진행되는데…
미국과한국에서일을해보시면서느낀차이점 - 예) 시장전반, 직원들성향이나디자이너의차이, 사업에미치는문화적영향의차이등
Ÿ 미국회사: client가일요청하는것을받아서해준다– 따라서, table의주체를우리로돌릴수있다.
Ÿ 한국: 한국은디자인을활용하는방식이형편이없다. 처음부터될성싶은회사에요청을해야한다.
Ÿ 불행중다행이미국에서사업을해서table이 client에게로돌아가있는일이없었고미국에서 recognition을만들어서한국에왔기때문에, 한국에서도비교적수월하게일들을진행할수있었다
Ÿ “디자인은컨피던스를파는거지니고시에이션을파는게아니다”
Ÿ 디자인회사는의사고, 찾아오는회사는환자다– 한국은환자가의사에게따지는꼴
본인의사업/성공에있어서학문과현장의경험에대하여각각비율을매긴다면어디에얼만큼씩...
Ÿ 모두필요하다 -> 어떤분야에서든지…
AIESEC에서의 활동에 대하여 잠깐...
LC로 네덜란드로 시작
NC로 활동하면서 사람들의 경영에 대하여 익히게 되었고
AIESEC International로 가고 글로벌 스케일의 사람들의 경영에 대하여 익히게 되었다
당시에 Global President로 활동하면서 대한민국 대통령을 18분간 알선하였었다.
Q1) What is the major difference between Korean people and the other countries?
A) It's a very broad question. Let me just talk about things that immediately comes to my mind. It is quite unbelievable and extraordinary how quickly this market has developed to the level that it has. I mean \$10,000(US) per caput, GDP is quite an enormous achievement in that short period of time. Still a long way to go.
It still a third off of that of the European and Western countries. So, how is that gonna happen? Here, the president of Korea talks about achieving \$18,000 at 2010. In the next number of years, they will try to get to \$18,000 and you wonder how that's going to happen. What has happened over the last decade or two, is probably not very sustainable.
It is probably not the way to achieve the next big leap. Because if you think about it, I think the courage and duration you guys and younger have a very different work ethic to what your parents used to have. It's quite normal and same with me. Your work ethic is no longer all that different these days from other countries around the world. Whereas your parents had a work ethic which is quite different. Your parents worked day and night. They would do anything, anything to advance themselves and their children. You guys and like me, I mean we spoiled him. Let's face it. I mean, we got it all, we live in nice house, we wear nice clothes, we are getting good education, and we have to do that freaking military service(laugh), and all sorts of hassle that we have to endure. But apart from that, life is pretty good. And we are prepared to work hard but I mean there is a limit, whereas your parents had no limits from what I gathered. They went, zoom, that way.
So, one is about drive energy and enthusiasm that your parents used to have which this generation probably does not have to the same degree. The other thing is, because Korea had no where to go other than advance, your parents and the rest of the population was very united in choose of 'that is what we want to achieve' and all of everyone went in that direction. Whereas today it's a little bit more difficult, because people are better off, different interests, different opinions, different agendas, and all kinds of things. So people are not as united as it used to be 10, 20 years ago.
Apart from the whole cheabol concept which is not gonna work anymore. Now the majority of the top 10 cheabol companies are more than 50% foreign owned. Because they are all enlisted(?) as public companies. So this sort of things are still hapenning now days with SK Global, and even SamSung which is laying out its credit card unit. That must be the last time they can actually do that, because the next time, the investors are gonna punish them. They are gonna say "Right, if you do that, I do not want to hold any shares of SamSung." And they are gonna sell it at all costs, and share price will significantly hurt from that. So, it is gonna be the last time that SamSung can do that kind of trick and SK can do that. So, that was the model that was build before that. People that were incredibly motivated. Everyone needed the same sort of direction, cheabols which is very very powerful and it could manuever a cash around to fund what was acquired and not necessarily you have to look at the profitability every single unit on its own.
Thirdly, you had a government which was not a democracy, let's put it that way, and therefore it could suppress where necessary, any sort of public unrest or unsatisfaction. So it could ensure that it was their direction.
Those are the four key ingredients that made Korea move as fast as it did. None of those, none of those will be able to replicate that next ten years. So, what I'm puzzled about having arrived here relatively shortly is how is this country going to do that? And it doesn't seem to be a very clear agenda other than a lot of ambition. Korea has a lot of ambition. It wants to be the largest hightech country in the world, Pusan wants to be the largest hub, Asian harbor in Asia, Inchon wants to be the biggest North-Asian hub for air transportation. And it is a big ambition, right? Seoul is looking to become a major, if not the biggest, financial center in Asia. Singapore and Hong Kong are streets ahead, but Seoul, it got it in its mind that it should be realistic. I mean, no one lacks ambition here, but I am concerned that it might be based on what you guys had done before. I am not sure whether it is based on a realistic understanding of what it is that is gonna deliver that, is gonna achieve. That is my macro observation.
Q2> Which parts should be improved and revised in the prospective leaders of Korea. An advice for us.
A> I found so far, relatively limited conceptual and strategic thinking capability, in my business. And I find that everyone in my organization well educated, seriously, very well educated. A lot of people have been abroad, like you. Mostly in the US, a little shown in Europe. Well educated, there's no shortage of that. But the biggest gap I find is the ability to conceptualize, the ability to strategize, as opposed to 'just do', and do things with incredible ambitions and run. That's not a wrong thing, nor a bad thing. But it seems to all be based on 'let's make stuff happen today', 'and if we do lots of stuff, something will work'. As opposed to being a little bit more smart about it. What do we want to do in 5 years term, what do we want to do in 3 years term. What are the steps we need to put in place to get there. So, that conceptualization and strategizing is not really there. That's the key part.
People work very hard still, even in my office now, there are still people here. And I ask them "Why are you doing?" "Why are you in the office at 9 o'clock in the night?", maybe you guys, gamers do that, because you guys are sort of like creative bunch, right? You have to work at night, but normal people, which not gamers necessarily always, you shouldn't be here at 9 o'clock, you should be with your friends, with your family, with your kids, whatever else, right? People want to work, they are still quite ambitious, which is a good thing as long as you can channel it appropriately.
Q3> How are you helping your co-workers develop themselves in your organization?
A> By putting in a couple of disciplines, things that weren't around here. We do the usual in terms of every year, we set objectives and we do performance management appraisals in the end of the year, and we write development plans even. But development and learning is not once of the year type of activity, it's an everyday activity, right? So what we are moving toward is a process that happens throught out the year. Where by a couple of things, you set your objectives, if you do that, align with the business plan, you do that to be smart in terms of simple, measurable, achievable, realistic, and time bounded. They have to be smart. Then what we do is, on the basis of the performance appraisals, we create a development plan. The development plan has a couple of different elements. It has got elements of self-reading, or self-learning if you'd like, it's got elements of coaching from other people, it's got elements of feedback from a broader group of people, and it's got elements of 'maybe' formal training.
I am not a great believer of a formal training. I don't believe that you can one day work in an office, work with people, work on whatever you do. And then you go to a training course for three days, and you come back and do personals. And all of a sudden you are gonna do all that. I don't believe in trainings, I don't think it works.
I think what happens what happens when you go to a training course, you say to your husband or boyfriend or whatever else, and you say "I'm going on a course". And on Monday, "I got three days, really nice." You walk up there, you talk to all the people there. He listens, very interesting, very cool. You have nice lunch, you have nice evening, you have some drinks with everyone, you stay over or you go back to your house. And you got three fantastic days outside the office. No stress, no obligations, no accountabilities, and it's really interesting. And none more than that. So you come back to into the office, "God, I gotta do all this and all that" And starts up, "Training? What was that about? Uh.. Whatever, I'm busy now" See, you got everything that you have 'supposedly learned'. So, I'm not a great believer in trainings and so which is why I put a lot of effort into creating development plans which are about coaching and providing feedback to people. Because I do believe that training, learning is what you do on the job. And it is about getting the people to help you, to support you, to provide you with the tools to do what you need to do. And that's called coaching.
So, we are putting in place, something that you guys are(n't?) doing, used as a same word, a 'mentoring system', for a slightly different purpose. We haven't done this yet, but we are looking to do this in April or something. To provide, to make sure that everyone has got a mentor within division, which is not their boss. And they meet, go for lunch, or go for dinner, or whatever. Meet in the office in the meeting room, every week. To review what they are doing, and how they are getting over that. So, we are looking to provide coaching and feedback sessions to people where by we train. Maybe there's gonna be one outside trainer who's gonna be here. And we are just gonna do what's called 'ball-place(?)'. You and I are going to sit down, and I am going to provide you with feedback. And you are going to experience how it is to receive feedback. And you are going to provide feedback to me and I'm going to experience how it is to do that. And we are going to learn to do different views, different tools to provide feedback to each other. It becomes very constructive as opposed to challenging. Because if you provide feedback today, then I start to feel a bit defensive. But if you start to come from the same perspective, in terms of what you both have gone through. A number of role plays will buy you understand(?) what this is all about, then feedback becomes very nice, very good. Because we all like good and bad. We all like to learn. We all like (?) ourselves. And feedback is an absolute key to everyday to be able to do that. It's very difficult in a Korean environment. Because Korean environment is so cofucianist based. I mean you talk about being a senior to... (laugh) That we don't do that here. We try to limit that, reduce that. There's nothing wrong with it. It just doesn't work in a sort of an envrionment that an American company like ours is trying to be, also in Korea. So it doesn't work.
I've just promoted someone who, is now become my technical director. He's by far the best guy in that team. His main concern was that he would have two people reporting into him who are his seniors from studying. The guy is, he's 46 himself, and those two other people are 53. I've just arrived in the country, I didn't know. What's the big deal? What is this all about? You are clearly, and they would even admit to, that this guy is a lot more capable than they are. That sort of thinking cannot work in an American company, cannot work in the sort of environment that we want to create. Because it's not about how senior you are, how many years you've got. It's about what worth you can do. It's about how good you are in terms of achieving and in terms of how you achieve with people. I'm 36, and in the Korean business I could never do what I do, ever. 36? Everybody would resign! Yet I can do what I do here. I can be very effective to Coca Cola company. Things I'm doing quite a nice job and I will hopefully be able to do that for the next 3 years. So it's not about age, it's about ability. So, that what we are looking to break through, with coaching and feedback sessions where by we start to have actually honest coversation.
* Light went out *
Q4> Are there many Korean women working here in Coca Cola?
A> At least 50 50 in the office. The marketing cells. Cells in distribution and delivery are men. The majority of our manufacturing are men. Blue collar is very much men. The marketing office is pretty much 50 50.
Personally, I prefer working with women. (Sorry guys ;)) I found that conceptualization and strategizing skills, women are far better. From the personal observation and I truly believe that.
I came from Holland and Holland is very liberal. The economical system works nicely.
Q5> Tell us about yourself.
A> I was born in Holland. In a small town. My father worked at Philips. Every two or three years, we moved to different cities. Then we moved to Sweden. Then my parents moved to Mexico. And we joined them for a while. ... Continued my studies in Holland. Bachelors degree and Masters degree in Holland. In between worked for AIESEC and NC. Cameback and finished my studies. Hated studying. (laugh) I did Aero Space Engineering. Mathematics and Physics all day long. And I found it very very boring. Did bachelors also in business administration and masters as well. I started working for P&G. I wanted to work and study at night. Work as a normal 'brand assistant' at marketing department at P&G. Finished MBA not before a year. Because I had done AIESEC at a high level, all these companies used to know me. So, I played them. They wanted to interview me. I am not really into interviews, you know me already. You've worked with me quite a bit. If you've got something to say, just tell me. So, UNILEVER said "Okay then, we'll offer you a job without an interview." I was already working for P&G. UNILEVER was quite interesting with few other options. I joined UNILEVER. P&G is the arch-rival of UNILEVER. I was in the detergent business at P&G and I was moved to detergent business of UNILEVER. They sent me to Spain to change my mind and I came back and said "I still want to go to UNILEVER". I had to leave on that day.
UNILEVER provide non-structured path compared to P&G. In P&G, year one, you are a brand assistant, in year two, you can possibly be promoted to a marketing assistant, then you become a brand manager, then a marketing associate, but by the time you become a marketing assosicate, you will have worked here at least for a six or seven years. UNILEVER is about ability. If you can take the responsibility, we'll give it to you. We'll give you more as much as you can take, we'll develop you. I joined them as a brand assistant, on dish wash liquid. Dubro, I worked on that brand for a year. I was very busy with dish wash liquid. I had a whole portfolio for a dish wash liquid and a machine wash. I had three brands. I had a team of people on year two when I was there and I started to take on more responsibility. I ended up after three years, running all of the house holds cleaning products. The whole division of UNILEVER. I didn't like UNILEVER that much. Not fast enough, not entrepreneurial enough. So, I wanted a bit of a challenge. My previous boss at UNILEVER had moved to Coke, and he told me that "In two years time, I'm going to give you a call, and we are going to have to talk, about you coming to join Coke". And he did. He called me and said "let's have lunch and let's talk". He had become the marketing director on Coca Cola on Holland. And he told me about coming to join them. He did put me in the official interview process through head hunter and I had to meet with people in London and fly down to Atlanta to have the interviews. I was convinced and these guys were going to pay a bunch money and I was going to do a nice job. I said "Why not?"
I worked in Holland as an assistant - we call it 'the bag man' - you carry the bag of the boss. He was the division president for Northwest Europe. So he was the boss and I carried his bag. I travelled around, you sit in every meeting, you get to know everyone there is to know in our business. It was a fantastic opportunity and I did that for 9 months, as the 'bag man'. Then they sent me to Indonesia, so I worked for the marketing director of Indonesia for three years.
My wife was working for ABN AMRO as an investment banker. I was 28 years old. No children. We arrived there(Indonesia) on December 1996. The economy was going up. We were having discussion about 'why we are growing only 40%?' 60%? 100%? What are the barriers? Can we overcome those barriers? A very good question.
However the Asian currency crisis hit. In Korea, in Thailand, in Indonesia in that order. In 1997, we went on Christmas leave to Holland. Then, 2,400 Rupiah was 1 dollar. We came back on January 10th, 15,000 Rupiah was 1 dollar. 6 times devaluated. We had a business plan before we left. We tossed it out the window. We had to start over. Prices were going sky high and the inflation was enormous. So I had to completely redevelop a business plan. P&G closed and UNILEVER lost about 50% of the business and we lost about 10 ~ 15% of the business. Learned incredible amount from that business. Did that for three years then moved to New Zealand as a country manager.
It was my first general management experience. We start working with the local team from NZ since it hasn't grown for a while. We started putting in some strategies and some people to it and extended the region to include all the Pacific island as well. And ended up being the managing director for the Oceania. Wonderful places like Tahiti, Figi, etc.. :)
And this is my next step as a general manager. Now the challenge is to prove that I can do that on a bigger business. A far more complex market. The economy is against us. Number of health concerns. We made number of not-so-smart decisions over the last couple of years. It's quite a challenge. So, that's me.
I got three children. We had first one in Indonesia and she was born in Singapore. Five years old now. Two boys in New Zealand. They are three and one. All blonde.
Q6> How do you manage your time?
A> Set priorities. Work and family, and most of things are not. Which means that I am prepared to sacrifice TV - I never watch TV, ever, other then the commercials that we need to see -, I don't spend enough time with friends. You make choices, it's tough. For me, those choices are pretty clear. I'm quite happy with those choices. And you have to be very discipline. I wake up at around 5 ~ 5:30 in the morning. I start to read. I read business stuff. Magazines and newspapers. I don't read many books. At 6:15, if we're lucky, our children wake up. The day starts and we'll get on a shower and everything else and we have breakfast. At 7:30 I drop my child off at the bus and I go to work. I'm here at 7:45. I start to work at 7:45 ~ 7:50.
During the day, the emails are phenominal, particularly here in Korea. I get like 150 emails a day or something. I can't figure out a way for my secretary to do some of them, so I'm still doing all of them myself. So, I start the day by having my agendas cleared and priorities cleared for the day. Then I do my emails, that's like 8:30 or so. Make sure my preparation is done for the day. My day is pretty full with meetings. I always try to have like half an hour or an hour in between meetings. So I can do phone calls, so I can do emails, or I can do further preparation for any of the meetings. So my day is meetings. I talk all day. Everyday. I don't do much other than talk.
I make sure that I do all the meetings and all the smaller things that I need to do. I actually have an hour or two to actually think about some of the bigger things that I need to be working on or thinking about or initiate. Korea is pretty easy, because everybody goes for lunch. 12 o'clock everyone goes, 1 o'clock everyone comes back. So that works pretty nice for me, because I don't go for lunch. I'll use half an hour before, and an hour, and half an hour afterwards. So, it's a good two-hour block to think. So I have my lunch, I have a coffee, there's no one around, very quiet, nobody bothers me. Nobody comes in or wants to talk or whatever else. So, it's time to think. And then the service starts again, the meetings, phone calls, emails, and people coming and etc. There's always in a day, I would spend about 75% on all the small things and 25% on some of the bigger things, but I try to maintain that space.
I go home at 6:15 everyday, because I want to see my children. I'm at home around 6:30 ~ 6:45. I put my children to bath, take them out, dress them up, read them story, put them in the bed, and do most often, have some dinner with my wife. Then open a laptop and work or read things. Or come back to office like tonight. I forge(?) to live relatively close by so that I can do that which is a choice you make, again. I don't want to live far away in beautiful Kangnam. Because if you do that, you can't do this. So, you make choices.
On the weekend I don't work. Weekend is my family time. There will be rare occasions that I do have to work, some months of during the year. But when I do work on weekends, always limit that to one day, so I'll have the other day with my family.
You have to focus. I'm pretty intense on what I do. When you work, you work. When you are home with your family, you are with your family. So I'm not gonna even think about work when I'm with my family. Because there's no point. The worst thing you can do, I think, is to become really feel guilty when you are at work about not having seen your family, and start thinking about work when you are with your family. You gotta choose, you have to give up things. All of us have to give up things. I would like to probably spend a lot more on sports. And I try to, and I do pretty much every Sunday. I'd go to gym or go cycling on river sides. And cycling I can do now with the kids as well, so you can combine things. So, board the bike with a trailer, and the children can sit on the trailer behind the bike. Now, Korea, there's not a people doing this, so I have a lot of people looking at me when I do this. And you can go for about 30 or 40 k on the river side which gives me a good exercise, a good work out. And my children love it, because it's my dad, it's special.
Q7> What motivates you most? Money? Fame?
A> Money is important. Let's not deny it. I want to live in a nice house. I want to be able to have a good car. I want to be able to not have to think about whether I can afford to do somethings. And that's the sort of the things that we all want to. I don't necessarily need to be rich. When you get rich, which I'm not, you start to worry about all these things, when you have two or three houses, you got to maintain them. You worry about your house and whatever, your car.. becomes more of a hassle. So I don't need to be rich. But money is important.
What's also important is growth, in terms of money. More so even than the money, I just to see the money to become more. Because when the money becomes more, it means that I'm being valued and I'm being rewarded for what I do. I couldn't tell you how much I make now. I don't actually know. I have to look it up. So it's not that important. What is important though, every year I see that "right, I get so much more, fine" "I'm on the right track still" "I'm still being pussy valuable" so, that's important to me. Then I don't look at it for a whole year until next year (pretends to look at the contract) "ah, okay. We're still in business, right?" Money is important.
What's pretty more motivating to me is, we do a test every year. I'd just done it again. We are gonna see the results in two weeks time in a meeting in Sydney. We look a circumplex of personal styles, behaviour styles. Circle which talks to 3 different basic behavioural styles. Red styles - Aggressive styles, Green - Dependent styles, Blue - Desirable: Encouraging styles, self-actualization type of styles. This is based on a theory by a company called Human-Synergistics, and they've done this in 25,000 companies. Within these basics styles, they got a number of different, specific attributes styles that they can identify. My profile is very red. Very aggresive, highly competitive, very perfectionistic, very much power, all that sort of bad things. I'm no green, none. I'm not dependent, I'm not waiting for others to m |